From a local list-server; a Minnesota small businessman has had enough:
Being born in Minnesota, I have always been proud to claim this state as my home, but no more. After experiencing the never-ending social politics and nanny state liberal policies unfold year after year, I realize that Minnesota is on a fast path to destruction in the name of all things liberal and socialistic. Our politicians somehow feel entitled to continually spend money they don’t have because the can simply stick their hands in our pockets whenever they want more. The taxes in this state are incredible, yet we are continually expected to keep paying more and more in order to redistribute the wealth of the productive working class. The stream of social and welfare benefits never seems to end. Somehow, those of us who continually struggle to get ahead; to get a good education, and work hard to support our families are deemed as being “blessed by opportunities” and therefore somehow owe something back to society. I am not buying into this nonsense.
The opportunities I have had were self created through hard work, personal struggle and sacrifice, hardship and came at great risk. There has never been a handout for me. I have earned what I achieved and worked incredibly hard for what I have. And yet, the more I struggle and work towards being a productive member of society, the more I am taxed and viewed as somehow being privileged. Due to our current state of economic affairs in this country, we are all struggling to get by. We are all working harder and making sacrifices. Yet our politicians, especially in Minnesota continually prove they have no common sense to grasp basic economics 101, or they simply don’t care. We are on the path towards never ending tax and spend. Minnesota is continually hitting small business in the pockets through increased taxes, fees and regulations. And yet, we are somehow expected to standby and “pay our fair share” while the same politicians choose to frivolously spend more and more of our money on self serving interests in the name of social welfare or to further their careers.
Well Minnesota…I am done! I am no longer sticking around to support those that continually look for a free hand-out and those that seek to make their “self proclaimed rights” my burden. I am taking my productivity elsewhere and refusing to play the social redistribution of wealth game. I owe no one for my opportunities and success but God and family. I will create opportunities for those around me elsewhere, and will contribute towards productivity that serves to reward those willing to put it all on the line and take personal risk. In a sense, I am now one of these former Minnesotans that has had enough and taking my money and labor out of this state. As more and more businesses and hard working individuals (and yes, the wealthy included) choose to leave this state and relocate to other states that are more business friendly and less tax happy, maybe Minnesotan voters will wake up and realize that one day, no one will be left to fund their socialistic welfare programs. Who will they tax then?
So, while I guess we can not choose where we are born, we can choose where we decide to live. In the next month, I will be shutting down my Minnesota [business]. It has been a fun run while it lasted and I really enjoyed being a member of this list. You are all great people and as [small businesspeople], taking huge risks every day in this state. Thank you all for your support over the years. This list is a great resource and I will miss participating in the future. I look forward to hopefully meet many of you in Duluth in a few weeks, even if you don’t agree with my view points. Best wishes to you all.
(P.S. I know the country is not doing much better lately either, but once a professional soldier,, always a professional soldier. I refuse to leave the USA.)
It’s a big step – the ultimate one, really, in terms of voicing displeasure over state politics. But it’s a long American tradition; if your neighbors get too stupid for you, strike out for the wilderness.
It’s more tempting all the time.
“Wingnut Depot” will be missed. Minnesota’s loss is Alabama’s gain.
I’d like to see a quick calculation of how many average Minnesota taxpayers will be required to replace his tax burden.
Do you know where he’s headed? A hidden valley in Colorado perhaps?
Nothing. If the guy really exists, he’s moving cause he’s not making money. Duh.
If he’s not making money, he’s in the right state.
Silly Clownie! Doesn’t he know this is happening in NYC, too? Thankfully, Democrat politicians are keeping investigators and prosecuters fully employed.
Oh he exists, alright. I had beers with him at the Champps on Larpenteur a while back. He’s making enough money that moving out of state will give him a raise of almost 10% just in Minnesota taxes alone, not counting lower cost of living elsewhere.
Wish I could get a 10% raise that quickly.
.
I wonder how long it’ll be before tax refugees start getting prosecuted as “economic criminals.”
Oops. I may have given somebody an idea.
Nah, I’ll bet they’re already working on it.
Good bye, and good luck?
I have a few problems with these statements. So, this guy’s answer to the tax situation in Minnesota is that he heads off to the wilderness, somewhere, to aviod them. And he is going to do WHAT to make money in the business friendly wilderness? The one that apparently doesn’t have internet access so he can continue to be in touch with his friends and support network? That business friendly wilderness where there are few to no taxes
Yeah, WHAT wilderness would that be exactly?
Remember that bogus email from the retired admiral that was circulating back during the Somali pirate hostage, the one critical of Obama, except the admiral, who was a real person never wrote it? And the real retired admiral pretty well debunked the contents?
This has a lot of those same KINDS of little red flags for me.
Is this just one of those ‘things’ circulating Mitch, or do you actually personally know this is a real guy from Minnesota?
Doggie pondered “Yeah, WHAT wilderness would that be exactly?”
Texas comes to mind. Florida is another. Both business friendly, zero income tax, and, amazingly, have Internet access.
Yeah, WHAT wilderness would that be exactly?
South Dakota, too. I hear Dan Hindbjorgen on the radio reminding me about such things all the time.
DG,
This person is, in fact, real.
As to “where to go?” I know friends who left here for Utah, the Dakotas, the desert; I’m not a small-town person, and I”m not thinking of moving personally anyway, but Texas and Florida both have their attractions.
And no, Clown, he doesn’t run “wingnut central”. He sells freakshow tickets, just like you did before you switched to clownin’.
I think DG took the literal meaning of the word “wilderness”. Good thing she’s a smart cookie.
Mitch, I should look for the quote that a Democrat (I think in congress) made about raising taxes on the successful…he said, “well, they had a good run”.
So you take all of your money, invest in a business. Work 80 hour weeks. Make virtually nothing for the first 10 years. Then start to take off. You pay income tax, property tax, employment taxes, sales tax, donate to the local non-profits, your employees pay taxes, deal with every new round of increased gov’t regulation. Finally, you’re in your 50s and you start to get a good return. And the Democrats say they are going to confiscate your money because you “had a good run”.
DG says “Yeah, WHAT wilderness would that be exactly?”
as mentioned above the wilderness of Texas, South Dakota, Florida, and Utah to name a few. Last I checked they all had Internet service.
I don’t know the person in the post but I do have a friend/former employer who is spending August moving his company to South Dakota – that’s 25 Machinist jobs that won’t be paying MN income taxes ($2900 ea) anymore, plus his property taxes are lower for a bigger facility.
Good thing you are such a self proclaimed “smart cookie” or you’d never figure this out.
The Democrats have had a “good run”. I think it ends in 2010.
This is purely anecdotal so DG and AC can dismiss it as fake, but a friend of my father’s runs a family owned business that was literally started by his father in their garage. It’s now a multinational company with facilities here in Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Ireland. He told my father that if Obama follows through on his plans to change the rules on how corporations are taxed on overseas profits, if card check passes, and if cap and trade is enacted he will pack up and move the company’s corporate headquarters to Ireland. This is not a man known for making rash statements.
Now it’s unlikely that all three of those events will come to pass and this example isn’t particular to Minnesota’s business climate, but it does show that companies have options (today more than ever) for where they want to locate and if things get bad enough, they won’t hesitate to exercise them.
An article in the July 20th edition of National Review shows that there is also some tangible evidence that people are indeed voting with their feet.
Going Alamo by Kevin D. Williamson (sub req)
If you want to know where the future is headed, look where the people are going. And if you want to know where the people are going, check with U-Haul. Here’s an interesting indicator, first noted by the legendary economist Arthur Laffer: Renting a 26-foot U-Haul truck to go from Austin to San Francisco this July would cost you about $900. Renting the same truck to go from San Francisco to Austin? About $3,000. In the great balance of supply and demand, California has a large supply of people who are demanding to move to Texas. There’s a reason for this.
“Did the greater prosperity in low-tax states happen by chance?” asks Laffer, who studied the issue for a detailed economic report, Rich States, Poor States. “What seems obvious to us appears as right-wing science fiction to many California legislators and pundits. They claim that serious reform of the tax code is unrealistic, that a large state has many duties to fulfill, and that it is irresponsible to call for a return to a 19th century view of the role of government. . . . Not only does Texas lack a highly progressive income tax — it doesn’t have one at all! We hasten to add that the last time we checked, Texas still had literate kids, navigable roads and functioning hospitals, which one would think impossible given the hysterical rhetoric coming from defenders of California’s punitive tax system. In fact, the Texas success story illustrates everything we have been recommending for California all these years. How do they do that?”
Glad to hear this is a real person, not more of the fake politicizing.
So, this guy is moving somewhere he thinks is better, great. Why he has to leave the list he references ” You are all great people and as [small businesspeople], taking huge risks every day in this state. Thank you all for your support over the years. This list is a great resource and I will miss participating in the future. ” and can’t continue to participate makes no sense, unless he means wilderness literally. geography is not an obstacle to participation through the internet.
While some business has been hit, hit hard, by the current economic problems, blaming it on Minnesota government seems a bit disingenuous. The success rate for a variety of reasons for small business is mixed at best; many fail. Politics is only one factor, and not necessarily the most significant. There are business, large and small, that are still doing well in this state; some are even growing.
Wonder how they can do that, if the government is so universally deadly to success?
It IS a shame that someone has to leave a place they care about and where they have roots and family that are left behind.
People do leave; other people, like Mitch, come here from somewhere else. That is a loss to those places. It evens out.
Speaking of business opportunities in Minnesota, I see that David Strom has Jerry Durand on for his first hour tomorrow morning.
I’ve been following this whole series of news events about Durand, Cook, the various Oxford name variation companies. The expansion of the asset freezing by the courts. The involvement of the SEC, the FBI. Some, not all of their websites are down; one has been suspended. I tried accessing Pat Kiley’s site; nothing there that I could get to, nada.
Personally, I see this as more of a black eye for Minnesota business, and the state’s reputation. Minnesota regulators are usually quicker than the feds; the feds seem to be moving in on this faster than I would have expected. Looks like new plaintiffs are hearing about this in other parts of the country…LIKE TEXAS… and coming up here to try to get their money back.
Wonder what the Texas and Ohio regulators are doing if anything.
Somehow, this isn’t looking to me like it is the fault of our state OR federal government that regular, ordinary people are hitting hard times so much as it is some crooks in business. Minnesota businesses.
Dog Gone for “smart cookie” you sure missed the point on this one. AS for leaving the list I would guess it is MN focused and being a Texan or whatever it would not have the same benefit.
“unless he means wilderness literally. ”
He never uses the word “wilderness” either figuratively or literally.
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DG
The city of St Paul asserts that $13.78 is a living wage.
Question for you, whats the difference between the person making $13.78 an hr in St Paul and the person making $13.78 an hour in Sioux Falls SD? Answer; the person in Sioux Falls gets to keep $2020.00 more of the money they earned. Is that wrong, why?
Whats the difference between the person making $13.78/hr in St Paul and the person making $13.78/hr in Williston North Dakota? Answer; the person in Williston gets to keep $1419 more of the money they earned. Is that immoral, why?
You’re the self-advertised “smart cookie”, why don’t you enlighten me.
Guess that’s why so many people are flooding out of Minnesota for NoDak, eh Kel? Why the Mini Apple will be a ghost town any day now.
people are flooding out of Minnesota
People? Perhaps not.
Jobs and companies? Flooding may be a big word, but it’s a pretty steady flow. It’s one of the reasons the Dakotas have been pretty recession-proof in the last two downturns.
MoN wrote:
that he never uses the word wildnerss. And MoN was correct; Mitch used it to describe his exit. I took that as a description by Mitch of where this guy was going that was not covered in what was posted:
“But it’s a long American tradition; if your neighbors get too stupid for you, strike out for the wilderness.”
I did not take it strictly in its most literal sense, but rather that most of the states subsequently identified as where people tend to go are less economically developed, tend to be more rural with less infrastructure and smaller populations. That presents problems both in staffing a business, and in the size of the potential consumer base. The infrastructure limitations are presumably fairly selfevident, but consider further that if you are to compare as an example the concentration of potential innovators in a place like Silocon Valley to the concentration of similar innovators in Montana, there are likely more per capita in California. This is not to trash Montana; I love Montana, it is one of my favorite states in this country. Certain kinds of urban areas tend to attract people with certain skills and education relevant to R&D. Those urban areas are more common in states that tend to have government, including taxes, like Minnesota, California… I’m sure you can all complete the list on your own.
When I looked critically at what was presented, I found it long on emotional appeals, comparatively simplistic in reasoning and analysis, and too general and vague on supporting factual detail. To be fair to the original author, these flaws are in part due to being taken out of the larger original context, where those were more clear. But what was posted here is all that any of us had to work with in terms of critical thinking.
I would respectfully suggest that to an extent the majority of reactions in comments here were ‘preaching to the choir’ responses, and less critical of the content.
“more rural with less infrastructure and smaller populations.”
Like Texas?
Dallas population 2.4 million
Houston population 2.2 million
“more rural with less infrastructure and smaller populations.”
Like Texas?
Dallas population 2.4 million
Houston population 2.2 million
San Antonio population ~ 1 million
El Paso population ~ 3/4 millioin
I’m pretty sure they got the internets in Texas. Texas GDP is 2nd in country. 15th in the world (if it were a country)
You want me to do Florida?
Let me a few things. UT Austin is ranked as a top 20 university, globally!
From Wikipedia:
In 2005, the Times Higher Education Supplement (THES) ranked UT as the 15th best school in the world.[42]
The university has ranked #12 among public schools (U.S. News & World Report, 2008),[43] #19 nationally (The Washington Monthly, 2007),[44] and #38 in an academic ranking of world universities (Shanghai Jiao Tong University, 2007).[45] Seven UT Austin doctoral programs ranked in the top 10 in the nation for 2008, with 22 departments also in the top 25.[46]
The Tech community in Austin is competing head to head wth Silicon Valley, Route 128 and India.
Texas created more jobs last year than the other 49 states COMBINED!
The economy is now global, not regional. MN seems to think it’s still 1959.
Personally, I am divesting in MN this year and investing outside of MN. I’m not the only person I know doing this. With Pawlenty not running, the future for MN is quite dim. MN also has some simmering social issues that I see boiling over in the near future.
Did I forget to mention that the weather sucks here?
Ever been in Austin in the summer, Tracy? A few years back we had 20 straight days over 100 and the humidity is terrible.
Still, it’s better than Houston which was the only place I’ve ever been that’s worse than Fort Lauderdale.
You get a choice: spend your time inside in the winter when it’s cold up north, or spend your time inside in the summer when it’s roasting down south.
Nerd, consider Cape Coral, Florida, just outside Fort Meyers. Since the real estate crash, land and houses are dirt cheap; it’s on the Gulf so you get nice breezes keeping the temperature a balmy 80 most of the time; there is high-speed internet available; and Florida has no personal income tax.
I’ve already bought my lot and have a home builder in mind. Just holding off until I can afford to move out of Minnesota.
.
Tracy,
You were doing so well until the last paragraph.
Minnesota’s weather is gorgeous nine months of the year. The remaining three months – December, January and February – it’s cold enough to make lightweights whimper a bit, and otherwise not half bad.
If I ever left Minnesota, it wouldn’t be for the weather.
The government, on the other hand?
You must be insane. The weather in this state sucks 9 months of the year. This summer has been cold and the winter ended in mid-June.
I vacation is Austin in the summer and I don’tmind the heat at all. You don’t have to worry about slipping in the ice, the evenings are all warm enough to walk around in shorts and you don’t have to pack a jacket in July, unlike this god-forsaken wasteland. I shouldn’t have to mention that Global Cooling is just going to make MN worse.
Things that make sense in Austin that don’t make sense in MN: Motorcycles, convertibles, biking, boating, etc.
Things I’ll never need again: Snowblower, ice scraper, sidewalk salt, Sorels, etc.
Do you really think you’ll love frozen sidewalks when you’re in your 60’s and 70’s? Can you say guaranteed broken hip?
You must be insane. The weather in this state sucks 9 months of the year. This summer has been cold and the winter ended in mid-June.
Er…huh?
I vacation is Austin in the summer and I don’tmind the heat at all.
Well, good for you!
I’ve had this theory since I was a kid; people are best adapted to the first weather they were exposed to. My dad was born in the summer of ’36; it was over 100 IN the house when he was a baby. He could always shoot a round of golf on a 95 degree day, have a cup of iced tea, and go play two sets of tennis and not break a sweat – but below 45, he’d start like a Fiat. Me? They took me home from the hospital through a -25 blizzard on the prairie near the Canadian border. Winters in Minnesota are for pansies; I rarely button my jacket if it’s above 10 degrees out. But summers get me; not as hot as NoDak, but way too humid, unless I’m violently physically active.
You don’t have to worry about slipping in the ice,
I don’t have to worry about that anyway. I don’t slip on the ice.
the evenings are all warm enough to walk around in shorts and you don’t have to pack a jacket in July,
I never pack a jacket much past mid-April anyway.
Things that make sense in Austin that don’t make sense in MN: Motorcycles, convertibles, biking, boating, etc.
Right. Because goodness knows nobody in Minnesota rides cycles, bikes, drives ‘verts or plays with boats. All of ’em are unheard of up here.
Things I’ll never need again: Snowblower, ice scraper, sidewalk salt, Sorels, etc.
Things you will need; lots of money to pay your AC bill; a phone line to your exterminator; paid-up life insurance for when an ice storm inevitably does strike, and the locals start driving like people who’ve never seen ice before.
Do you really think you’ll love frozen sidewalks when you’re in your 60’s and 70’s? Can you say guaranteed broken hip?
In the past four generations on both sides of my family, nobody has ever broken a hip on the ice. Not one.
And since you’re all on about Austin, need I remind you that the city’s goverrnment isn’t a whole lot farther to the right of Minneapolis’? It’s where all the liberal whackdoodles from NYC, Chicago and LA move to to escape the taxes, crime and stupidity – and inevitably bring all the above to Austin itself. You’ll be decamping to San Antonio soon enough – but so will they. Thence to Waco, then Lubbock, and finally Juarez.
How far are you willing to run?
San Antonio Sucks!
You may not be slipping now, but I hear balance goes as you get older.
I hear balance goes as you get older.
With some people? Perhaps.
Again – four generations. Zero broken hips.
Shooting ice to break it up helps, of course.
I’m shopping for land in Arizona. Somewhere in the Northern half, maybe Sedona. I love the heat, as much as I love the cold. Humidity is what I won’t tolerate.
“The remaining three months – December, January and February – it’s cold enough to make lightweights whimper a bit, and otherwise not half bad.”
I can’t wait to get out on my ’09 Arctic Cat Crossfire 800R this winter!!!
BTW, Mitch, -60F is not pansy weather, the long and cold winters in northern MN are worse than NoDak. Yes, I know, the NoDak wind is brutal.