It was five years ago today that Paul Wellstone’s plane crashed, killing his wife, daughter, some campaign aides, and the flight crew.
I remember it very well, of course; I was working at a contracting job and listening to my radio in the headphones when I got the word (and posted something immediately).
Of course, the tragedy provoked both a political fistfight in getting ready for the upcoming Senate election – and an outpouring of angst, occasional paranoia, some surprising reaches across the aisle, and a bit of electoral sturm und drang, “Paulapalooza”, that may have altered history the exact opposite of the way intended (as well as helping to put this blog on the map):
If you don’t live here, it’s hard to describe. Maybe it’s like this elsewhere in the country. All I know is, it’s totally on the sleeve of this state, and showed in spades last night. It’s something that started as a vague sense of unease seven years ago, when I first started becoming active in politics in Minnesota. It grew to a more coherent notion in 2000. It whacked me over the head when the mob booed the assembled Republican senators.
Hatred of Republicans is part of the majority, *mainstream* DFL culture in Minnesota.
Not dislike. Not disagreement. Hate.
You see it in bits of day to day life in this state: women theatrically holding their noses when talking about Republican candidates at the coffee shop; people who put “No Republicans Need Apply” at the top of personal ads; a mob of 15,000 mainstream, work-a-daddy, hug-a-mommy Minnesotans baying at the moon at the recognition of Republicans.
I’m not one of those Republicans who will ridicule Democrats for continuing to mourn Wellstone; indeed, many dear friends of mine, liberals mostly, had good reason to admire the guy. I’m still lamenting the too-early demise of Keith Moon – I’m not the one to talk.
Still, the death (and Paulapalooza) highlighted the corrosion of the part of civil life in this state that Wellstone didn’t control in the DFL.
Your last line I really don’t like my neighbors too much today., I have to disagree with. My democratic neighbors that I spoke to after the Wellstone Memorial/Political Rally, were appalled by what transpired. A good friend who was a former Wellstone campaign worker and fund raiser was as pissed off as I was. Not because of the blowback to the debacle, but because they saw it for the crass opportunism that it was.
If Saint Paul’s ego hadn’t been so huge, he would have kept his word with the People of Minnesota…and he’d probably still be alive today.
MoN,
the crowd I knew – the Grand Avenue habitues, the Hamline and Macalester kids, the people who wrote in to the Strib and whispered about conspiracy theories (one woman, a modestly prominent activist, publicly claimed she knew that the military had shot Wellstone down using a sniper team) – they were not quite so reasonable. And I got a double dose of them.
Dave,
Woulda coulda shoulda’s are entertaining, indeed.
Why limit your complaint about cvility to the DFL?
Are you suggesting, even for a moment, that the Republican Party, which hyped up the outlanding conduct of Mr. Kahn, or for that matter just the general words of someone like Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh (who called not just ONE soldier phoney, but really ANY who complained – he later recanted saying it was about ONE, but I heard his original remarks, it wasn’t) – do you really think the DFL has a monopoly on ugliness? If so, read some of the posts of your Lilliputians. I’m sure you don’t think that, but I’m equally sure you don’t care enough to be honest about admitting that the Republicans are at least as ugly as the DFL, if not considerably worse. Prior to Wellstone’s death, plenty of pretty ugly things were said abuot him, and what I found most ironic, is that Norm Coleman, with a straight face, during the debate with Walter Mondale, thought to lecture Mondale on diplomacy and cvility. Foremostly, Coleman’s been anything but diplomatic behind the scenes, and second, as far as statemanship goes, you’ll find few people as dignified or qualified as Mondale. Coleman might as well have been lecturing Ghandi on peaceful protest.
The fact that the ‘memorial’ became a rallying cry for electing Mondale, there is no dispute this occured, but what you on the right just don’t possibly get, is that it wasn’t planned. As Al Franken wrote pretty eqloquently, we aren’t stupid enough to think that was appropriate, Rick Khan destroyed the chance to have Mondale win by doing so.. so while it happened, as far as conspiracy theories go Mitch – there’s one that ALSO was ludicrous. Read Franken if you doubt it, it’s so clearly written from a position of pain, as opposed to the rest of the book which is whimsicle satire – that it’s hard to doubt the veracity – it exposes a raw wound within Franken over how that turned out. Considering he was at least consulted in the planning, I’m guessing he had a pretty good idea of the actual intent.
Regardless, it’s not as if we don’t have any Republican examples of funerals used for crass opportunism (Reagan *cough* cough*) – so please, glass house, meet stone.
Why limit your complaint about cvility to the DFL?
Because…it was a DFL event?
peevish miboy, google “tu quoque” and get back to us.
Mitch-
Any way you could set your site up so that we could get sort of a Reader’s Digest condensed version of Peeve’s comments? Some kind of software that takes his multi-paragraph rants and distills them down to their bare essence? ‘Cause there’s just not enough time in the day otherwise.
Oh pb…why should we trust you on your facts? Because you say so?
The Wellstone Sainting ceremony was planned. And even if it wasn’t, the vitriolic spew started when Republican officials were heckled on their way in. That should have been a tip off of things to come. Then Latimer started the train rolling downhill and nobody tried to stop it…
As far as FrankenFraud goes, you have to have a soul before you can be in that much pain.
Lastly, I don’t remember seeing a stadium loaded with people in the Reagan funeral. I remember him having a funeral in California, then the State even in Washington, then the internment in California. Where was that stadium thing? And don’t forget, moron, that the Williams Arena event was NOT a FUNERAL. That’a all Reegan had.
Peevish, you stupid fuck. Reagain’s time lying in state was not a party memorial event. There WAS no big party-run rally. And NO REPUBLICANS BOOED ANY DEMOCRATS.
Let’s focus on what’s important, Peev/PB/Mikey/whatever the fuck you are today. You are a moron. You are the most deeply stoopid person I’ve ever seen leaving comments on a blog, ever. And I’ll tell you to your face.
I don’t know Mitch’s rational, but if it were me, I wouldn’t have a “discussion” with you because it’d be like having a “discussion” with a shcizo. What is the point?
You write and “reason” like your mind is half gone.
Dipshit.
I don’t think there’s any reason to think that the Wellstone Memorial Rally to Elect Mondale was planned to go over the top.
But it was almost inevitable that it would. It pretty much had to. Once the booing of Wellstone’s Republican colleagues went unanswered from the podium —
— and that’s where it could have been stopped. Somebody running it could easily have stood up and said no. Somebody with some sense of decency could have said, “It’s a disgrace to boo these people who have come here to honor their colleague. That’s not what this is all about.”
Instead, that was what it was all about. The booing was followed by Rick Kahn, and by apologias all around, justifying the disgraceful behavior.
I think it was some dweeb over on mn.politics who explained that since the title of the event was “Stand Up and Fight”, of course it was an entirely appropriate memorial to Wellstone to boo his political opposition, for that moron Kahn to publicly ask that a Republican colleague of Wellstone’s campaign for his successor.
Let’s assume that it wasn’t planned, but merely a demonstration of DFL incivility, of the inability of the Koolaid drinkers to accept that there was a difference between a memorial ceremony and grubbing for political advantage…
Doesn’t that make it worse?
the Grand Avenue habitues, the Hamline and Macalester kids, the people …
Well, I could have told you a few posts back, you need to hang with a better crowd of Democrats.
Peevish sez t’s not as if we don’t have any Republican examples of funerals used for crass opportunism (Reagan *cough* cough*) – so please, glass house, meet stone.
You’re a fucking turd. How can you possibly justify that comment? No, never mind, don’t bother. You haven’t made a lick of sense in anything you’ve ever posted, why would I expect you to start now.
Quotes peevish: “..or Rush Limbaugh (who called not just ONE soldier phoney, but really ANY who complained – he later recanted saying it was about ONE, but I heard his original remarks, it wasn’t)…”
That is a flat out lie. FLAT OUT, and you know it.
Wow, Peev. Just…..wow. Yes, we all know what Rush meant. Reid and Harken knew and still decided to abuse their positions in slandering a private citizen from the senate floor. As far as the Reagan funeral, what the hell are you talking about? It was about the way I remembered the Truman funeral. Just a whole bunch of people paying their respects to a president they respected. At what point did anyone start booing or bad mouthing the opposing party? What in the world are you smoking?
The Wellstone memorial service turned out the way it did because of 2 decisions by those responsible for planning the event.
First, they put up live footage of various notables as they entered. What’s the point of a memorial service? To honor those who died, not to ooh and aah at those who attend. And once that started to go bad, no one had the brains to turn it off.
Second, a pastor friend of mine tells me that organizers chose to replace the rabbi who had previously been asked to lead the memorial service. Instead, George Latimer was given the job. As my friend put it, a rabbi (or other member of clergy) would have had the experience and position to step up, put an arm around the distraught speaker, and move him away from the microphone before it got out of hand.
That is a flat out lie. FLAT OUT, and you know it
I missed that one the first few times.
Yes, Peev – this is a rote recitiation of Media Matters’ line – a complete lie.
“this is a rote recitiation of Media Matters’ line – a complete lie.”
WOW!, you guys really do believe that. Simply fricken amazing. Talk about contextually challenged. Even if I made the final ideological move to the Right, I don’t think I could ever defend the indefensible. You folks do it instinctively. Wow! Is there pain involved.
Flash
Sans Rick Kahn, I thought the Wellstone memorial service was appropriate. Yes, I cringed when he went into full campaign mode, but my God, he just lost one of his best friends. The GOP wasted no time capitalizing on that politically. They were as, if not more guilty of ‘politicizing’ the service. They took one man’s grief and abused it for political gain.
We have never seen anything like that, and may never see it again. Many lessons were learned.
I thought that Reagan’s funeral was a very dignified and respectful farewell. As was Ford’s and Nixon’s. I watched as much as I could, and did my best to have my children witness them as well.
Flash
Flash, what are you talking about? Media Matters claimed that Rush Limbaugh was bashing *all* troops, when in context he was VERY clearly bashing the ones like the guy from New Republic, and the ones (plural) who claimed to be soldiers who participated in atrocities, and then turned out to have never been in Iraq at all.
“Talk about contextually challenged”? PB presented the “Rush slagged the troops” meme as if it were fact, when in fact it is without any merit at all.
What contextual challenge?
Flash, your objectivity is missing here. If it had only been Kahn being overwrought, it would have been easily forgiveable, and should have been.
But it wasn’t. Other than the (more than understandable) sadness, the Rally was, well, a rally: the iconification of Wellstone (again, understandable, in isolation, in context, but it wasn’t in isolation), the magnification and cheering for political allies, and the booing of political opponents.
In that context, the Wroth of Kahn wasn’t an isolated incident, but part of the picture, and it wasn’t a pretty picture.
But, yes, there was some rewriting of history: while I know of at least four people who were calling into one of the TV station (and I’m sure there were more; these were just generally nonpartisan folks I know involved in the gun rights movement) during the rally, the Frankenpravda is that outrage was ginned up by the Republicans after.
Nope. It was offensive on its face, and Kahn was merely the soundbite for the offensiveness.
Granted, it would have been difficult to do it right — with dignity, and without partisanship. Wellstone was a very divisive figure, and highly partisan, and involved in a very unnice race for his third term.
But if there was an effort by the rally organizers to avoid having it be a rally, not only wasn’t there any evidence on the screen, but the denials that they’d done anything wrong suggests that, at best, they were tone deaf to the difference between a memorial service and a political rally.
Which, I think, is a fair — albeit not flattering — tribute, such as it is, to Paul Wellstone, who always seemed to see opposition to his own ideas of as not merely misguided, but immoral.
“Rush Limbaugh was bashing *all* troops,”
‘mitch’, Captain revisionist!
I don’t know of anyone who claims Rush was bashing all troops, he was clearly bashing only those troops who were in favor of withdrawal, a position I disagree with and feel would be a tragic mistake at this stage.
But I honor and respect the service of all our troops, not just those who agree with me.
What is really ironic here, is your slicing and dicing of what Rush really said, puts you in a perilous position of creating a definition of ‘Phony Soldier’ that just may include our President. So careful, there!
Flash
I don’t know of anyone who claims Rush was bashing all troops
Then you really need to re-read Media Matters’ press releases on the matter.
Could you point me at the one you’re referring to, Mitch? The only one I’ve seen — http://mediamatters.org/items/200709270010 — accuses (unfairly, I think, but that’s another matter) Limbaugh of bashing “service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.”
Mitch,
Rush was bashing troops who criticized the war, I’m not reciting Media Matters or anyone else, I listened to it, I heard it. Claiming I didn’t doesn’t make it so, or are you calling me a liar?
Fact – he said – after his caller said phony (phoney?) soldiers, “These phoney soldiers” He didn’t say soldier, he said soldiers. Then he tried to spin in into just being about ONE soldier 30 minutes later.. Bull crap is my reply.
AK – I concur – they didn’t plan it, but it went WAY too far, and someone should have stopped it, I wish they would have, if they had, we wouldn’t have Coleman as a Senator. I’ve met Walter Mondale, I’m not sure he wasn’t too old (to be honest), but then again, Claude Pepper served until his 90’s so who knows.
And Mitch, I’ll go look to see whether Media Matters said Rush was bashing ALL troops – I suspect they say he was bashing THE troops, and since he was saying anyone who spoke out against the war was a phoney – that comment is accurate.
The point, yet again ignored, is when hero boy (Rush) says something vile, there’s no outrage, no hand-wringing. He’s an ugly, vile person, with one agenda in mind, domination of the country by the Republicans – an agenda Karl Rove aspoused Rove could deliver. You complain vociferously about an UNPLANNED piece of ugly theatre by the Dems, but I see NO, Not ever, complaints about the ongoing ugliness and frankly unamerican acts that claim that dissent is treason – well at least not any complaints if they’re made by Limbaugh. I have seen you obliquely complain about Coulter, but pretending this isn’t a two way street is both dishonest, and completely unreal.
Rush was bashing troops who criticized the war,
No, he was bashing troops who confabulate their entire war experience from scratch.
whether Media Matters said Rush was bashing ALL troops – I suspect they say he was bashing THE troops
A meaningless distinction, and wrong at any rate.
The point, yet again ignored,
Because it’s not the point at all.
is when hero boy (Rush) says something vile, there’s no outrage, no hand-wringing.
Right. Because Rush has no critics.
Yes, Peevish, somebody should have kept the memorial service from becoming a political rally — not out of political opportunism, to get Mondale rather than Coleman into the Senate, but because it would have been the right thing to do, even if it meant turning down an opportunity for the equivalent of an untaxed, unregulated, multi-million dollar media buy.
And it could have been turned around at any time that the cameras were on, even after the Wroth of Kahn. Latimer, Mondale, or any of the other speakers could have briefly and gently chided both Kahn and the audience, and asked that all of Wellstone’s colleagues who had come to pay their respects stand and be acknowledged respectfully, and apologized for the rudeness and misbehavior.
That said, as is sometimes the case, doing the right thing would have resulted in a benefit to the folks doing it. When Minnesotans engage on an issue, they tend toward being fair, on balance, and that instinctive grubbing for advantage that the ‘stonies engaged in got the public engaged.
Those boos, that over-the-top speech, that silence where the apology and correction should have been, and the lame attempts at denial pretty clearly cost the DFL that Senate seat.
The lesson should have been, I guess, that DFL Senate nominees should be men and women of great character, who can rise above partisanship and mindless attack to be leaders.
Instead, they’re apparently serving up Al Franken next fall.
Ya know, I heard Rush at the time and there was no question in my mind that he was referring to Jesse McBeth, et al. And within a couple minutes of dialog, he recapped the “morning Update” from the *previous* day where he had specifically discussed Jesse McBeth. And I heard it all live, at the time, so I had all the context. The left’s attempt to demonize falls flat when they raise no fuss over Stark or Murtha’s in-context words.
Flash,
No need to slice and dice. I’ll just take Hillary!/MediaMatters/CIM/MinnesotaMonitor paid hack Eric Black’s words at face value
I did say, in my post, that after listening to the whole segment, plus the Media Matters knockdown and Limbaugh’s rebuttal, it was possible for a fair-minded person to believe that Limbaugh was referring to all anti-war soldiers as phony soldiers, and it was possible to take Limbaugh’s word for it that he was referring to Jesse MacBeth case.
Seems that fair-minded people can disagree without having to “defend the indefensible”. No pain involved.
Either way, it was probably just the drugs talking.
what’s your excuse AC?
Why are you accusing Eric Black of taking drugs, AC?
PB,
If Eric Black – who works for a propaganda mill, but is a reasonable guy – agrees with the rest of us on the Limbaugh thing, then perhaps you need to re-read the background to this little squabble.
Or, y’know, read it for yourself for the first time, as opposed to regurgitating Media Matters’ generally-debunked smear piece.
Not only don’t you guys read what is out there, I begin to wonder if you even read what you write, given that it is probably boilerplate being pushed form the RNC, you may not.
“agrees with the rest of us on the Limbaugh thing”
Based on what MoN quoted, Black did nothing of the sort, not even close. He simply stated that “it was possible for a fair-minded person” To believe both sides of the story, while not favoring one or the other. I have to assume MoN supplied the relevant quote, unless he went to the Rush Limbaugh school of Transcript hacking
At ScaifeNet indoctrination, do they still use water boarding, or do you all just line up on your own with a smile and a nod.
Flash
given that it is probably boilerplate being pushed form the RNC
Y’know, Flash, given the number of times you’ve demanded proof when people say the MinMon is supported by Soros – when the very plausible financial path has been talked about for over a year now – the fact that you keep talking about these phantom RNC dispatches we’re all supposedly getting is kinda ironic. Doncha think?