Well, that's good news and bad news. The good news is at least it's not Nick Coleman. The bad news is that I was really hoping for Nihlist in Golf Pants.

I’m overjoyed for them. Although it might sound atypical coming from an atheist, I was a great admirer of Pope John Paul II and have felt an enormous sense of loss at the passing of this great man. Today looking at the pictures on Yahoo of little children (many of whom may not even be Catholic thanks in no small part to JPII’s outreach to people of other faiths) overjoyed at the election of the new Pope has filled me with a sense of rejuvenation. As if an enormous piece of the jigsaw puzzle of humanity has been found and put back into place.

Best of wishes to Pope Benedict XVI and to all Catholics everywhere.

Is that Al Frankin on the floor of his studio, vibrating like a fish out of water....in the middle of a seizure?

That's because Benedict XVI is as conservative a pope as you can find. To Frankin....Benedict is virtually the anti-Christ.

From the PopeBlog:
http://thepopeblog.blogspot.com/2005/04/pope-benedict-xvi.html

Pope Benedict XVI

The crowd in St. Peter's Square rejoiced as Pope Benedict XVI (formerly Cardinal Ratzinger) was announced as the new pontiff!

If you need a primer on the "Panzer Cardinal," see the Wikipedia.
==

Those paragons of cultural sensitivity and historical literacy at the Pope Blog

Wow. I did not know that.

Wierd.

Some of the comments over at Atrios' Eschaton read like the new pope is Hitler. Come on, guys, make up your mind: either Bush is Hitler or the Pope is Hitler. So many incarnations of that scruffy little German to keep straight.

Personally, I think Hitler was Hitler, but that's just a hunch.

I had also read the press and propaganda on The newly elected Pope regarding his participation in the Hitler youth. My limited historical background (compared to yours anyway) still lead me to believe that in those days there wasn't much of a choice in the matter. Kind of like a forced Boot Camp for boys. In fact, I would tend to believe that many of those boys were probably the ones that needed the 'brainwashing' and singled out for 'volunteering'.

I may be concerned with his ultra conservative 'return to the 19th century' beliefs. But I have no doubt he is a true, honorable, and holy man. And will lead the church respecfully and appropriately.

Flash

WHAT?? Aw, jees..... You mean the Roman Catholic orthodoxy just elected another devout Roman Catholic Pope? Didn't they consult the EU and the UN? And don't they know about the U.S. Supreme Court's new "evolving standards of decency" standards? How can this be? Didn't they get the memo from Howard Dean? Egad, first the Iraqi quaqmire and now this.

I liked the nick name I heard on the radio today for now-Pope Benedict XVI:

"God's Rottweiler"

Probably meant as a pejorative, but I liked it.

I met an honest to goodness nazi once. It was in a bar in Kona. He was an old guy, about seventy I'd guess, with a raspy voice. He was missing several fingers from each hand. Evidently his grandchildren had gone to Kona for a vaction and had taken gramps with them. I don't know how they dared to let the guy out of their sight.
He was an Austrian. He said he joined the Austrian SS after the anschluss and was put into a unit in occupied Eastern Europe. I asked him about killing civilians. he responded that there were no civilians on the front, and that where the SS was, that was the front. He said his unit had been prepred to fight to the last man and the last bullet but that at the end of the war they were tricked into surrendering.
Everybody in the bar he didn't like was a Jew. The waitress who ignored him was a Jew. The bartender was a Jew because he refilled his drink too slowly. The whole damn place was full of Jews. When he decided that I must be a Jew, I left.
That, my friends, is what a real nazi is like.

"I may be concerned with his ultra conservative 'return to the 19th century' beliefs."

Couple of small corrections Flash.

Pope Benedict's beliefs are actually traceable to the 1st century, the year 33 to be precise, and he isn't "returning" to them, he's had them all along.

I'm not happy with Ratzinger, but I suppose that's why I'm a Unitarian. (I was supporting Cardinal Martini, who would still be several degrees more conservative than I...but with a fairly reformist and open spirit.)

I do know that my Catholic friends are actually pretty disappointed; they weren't pining for a more conservative Pope.

But whatever. The Church can do what it will, and the people can react as they will. I suspect Pope Benedict XVI will not be good for the Catholic church in the West. But that is a decision for them to make, not me.

Swiftee, I'll give you $50 American if you can find me any red-letter text about homosexuality.

I'll double it if you can find me where Jesus talked about Vatican II.

I grant you that the new Pope is entitled to his religious beliefs--but so is Flash, and so am I. And my faith compels me to view Pope Benedict XVI as deeply wrong on a number of issues.

Again, that's why I'm a Unitarian and not a Catholic. But just as you are free to attack my religion's social liberalism and tolerance of gays, Flash is free to politely suggest that perhaps it would've been nice if the Catholics had chosen a more liberal Pope, but that doesn't mean Benedict is evil.

For the record, I'm a lot closer to Andrew Sullivan's opinion than Flash's. And I think the Catholic church may have made a grave error. But that is a matter on which those of good conscience can disagree, and will.

Jeff-
I guess you don't believe in the doctrine of apostolic succession. Not that that is bad, I don't believe in it either, but tradtional Catholics do. If you want a "red letter text" sect, you can try the Quakers. In their catechism ALL the answers are red letter texts.
Given that you don't believe in the divine authority of the Holy Ghost, expressed in Acts and the letters you can no more believe that there is a New Testament injunction against certain behaviors than I, as Trinitarian, can believe that the teachings of these same books have no authority. We're at loggerheads.
They fought the equivalent of world wars over the issue of divine authority 400 years ago. Let's just count our blessings that we haven't done that lately.

I think after a strong leader like John Paul II a transition period is almost a certainty; it would be a "slap in the face" to emplace a sudden change in direction right after his reign (not to mention
most/all the cardinals are JP2 appointees). I'm a tad surprised that he took the name he did since the last pope that took that name put a lot of effort into reaching out to Catholics world-wide and it also fulfills the Malachy prophecy. On reflection though, especially given his intellect I think his main mission would be to do the spade work to unite western, african and south american Catholics that will be pursued in full measure by his successor - who would be from one of those regions. I would also expect to see the potential candidates being groomed for that role and maybe some institutional changes to make that more workable (more third world types within the Vatican bureaucracy, for example).

(continued)

I'm going to go out on a real wing-nut limb here. Granted, he's a doctrinal conservative and we are not going to see any church reforms, but given what I've said, his official motto being Pax (Peace), and his being German and having been forced to serve in the Hitler youth (as all were of his age) and given the modern German penchant for being haunted by their history my early guess is he's going to be very forceful on first world/third world social justice issues and
peacemaking activities. Keep in mind John Paul II had some very scathing things to say about capitalism as well so if he's really been that much in lockstep with the former pope he's going to ruffle some feathers with the Bush administration - perhaps to the point where the
right wing echo machine would even start bashing the papacy (and don't tell me they wouldn't do it, they're totally shameless and a former Hitler youth German would be red meat for them).

Swiftee:

Please spare me the condescending History lessons. I did my 10+ years of catechism and have a pretty good handle on the big picture. I was referring to recent movement and societal growth of the church, via VCI and VCII which moved the church during the middle part of the 20th century.

As for Pope Benedict XVI, my brief research and recent articles have all stated clearly his much more liberal stance on the Church back in the late 50's and early 60's. So your implication that "he's had them all along" may not be as accurate as you'd like to think. The Wiki article touches on some of it, but it wasn't until the early/mid 60's that he began to moderate and then become more conservative
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_Church_Career

I will not judge you or anyone. I guess I am going through that period you did where you 'left' the church. But I never left the teachings, just the bureaucracy.

This is actually an area where we could probably have a chat over a beer or two and not find ourselves getting too worked up!

Flash

Hey Jeff,

you've got it all wrong pal.

I'm happy as can be that you and your ilk have created a catch-all McChurch that compliments your hubristic idea of theology.

Have yourselve's a ball..literally.

But you'll excuse me and my billion or so fellow Catholics if we take what you have to say with a bit more than a grain of salt.

I'll take you up on that offer Flash.

"As for Pope Benedict XVI, my brief research and recent articles have all stated clearly his much more liberal stance on the Church back in the late 50's and early 60's."

Liberal in relation to what Flash? See what was considered "moderate" or "liberal" in the 50's became reactionary in the 60's as we all went wild.

I don't think that Benedict has changed his beliefs at all, I imagine that he might say that it is the secular world's view of what constitutes morality that has hung a "conservative" label on him, not some radical rethinking of his faith.

(I'm not supposing to speak for the Pope...just speculative extrapolation of his recent public pronouncements)

Who said that Pope JPII was great? A great what exactly? He was powerful only because of his powerful position, but not per se a great man. Let's not confuse him with really great people like Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Nelson Mandela - great on their own merit rather than because of a job they got.

As for God's Rottweiler, der Panzerkardinal - take a look at the excellent new blog called Catholics Against The Pope to get a better view of what he's like. http://catholicsagainstthepope.blogspot.com

Yo Bishop, heads up,

Time for a brief history lesson ... Communism + Poland + Pope John Paul II = Fall of Communism.

Quote "Communism was great, even toilet paper was rashioned"

Great Blog?

42 posts 3 comments

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